EP41 Balancing Education Practices - Structure Learning Vs Free Play

In this week's episode of 'Pondering Play and Therapy' with Philippa, the guest is Charlotte Booth, the owner of Leek Play Hub and former senior lecturer at Manchester Metropolitan University. Charlotte recounts her extensive career in education, from teaching early years groups to becoming a senior lecturer, and her recent transition back to working directly with young children. The conversation delves into the changing landscape of teaching, the impact of political decisions on education, and the importance of maintaining a focus on play in learning. Charlotte also shares insights into her current roles, both as a teaching assistant in a nursery and as the founder of the Leek Play Hub, a space designed to foster interactive and imaginative play for children and their caregivers. They discuss the challenges and rewards of setting up the play hub, the effects of technology on children's playtime, and the significant role of play in child development.

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Transcript

Ep40 Balancing Education Practices: Structured Learning vs Play

Philippa: Welcome to this week's episode of Pondering Play and Therapy with me Philippa. And this week my guest is Charlotte Booth and she is the owner of Leak Play Hub. And she also works in a nursery. However, before that, Charlotte was a senior lecturer at the Manchester Metropolitan University and has recently moved from there into a.

Playing with little ones and it's sure it's a it's a huge kind of reversal really from adults being the program director into crawling around the floor, playing with little tiny ones. What. What was going on there? 

Charlotte: I had done 10 years at Manchester Met University as a senior lecturer.

I had [00:01:00] taught the early years groups and at key stage one and key stage two groups of students who wanted to become teachers. Prior to that, I. Was a qualified teacher. I was a primary school and early years teacher in Stashi and Cheshire schools. Before I, I moved to Manchester Met and it was really my, post-grad journey of study that took me to lecturing.

So I, followed on for my BA primary, which was four years. Graduated as a qualified teacher, got my own position class, year three, four class. But then I carried on doing a master's in teaching part-time and then carried on to doing a doctorate as well. So it was just a natural progression for me at that point to go into initial teacher education and after 10 launches.

And teaching a lot of student teachers and visiting a [00:02:00] lot of schools on teaching experience. I decided I was at a point in my life where I wanted to return back to the classroom. I think it's really important when you are in initial teacher education that you remain grounded in what's happening in the classroom context, because how can you teach people to become teachers?

If you've not been in the classroom recently yourself. So yeah, I just found that my heart wanted to go back into school for a little bit. And I'm not saying that I won't return to initial teacher education because I loved it for the 10 years I was at the university. It was really it was a really lovely job be able, being able to aspire and inspire teachers of the future.

But I wanted to get back in the classroom and have a little bit more of a direct impact. 

Philippa: Do you think teaching has changed during [00:03:00] the period that you were lecturing? 

Charlotte: Yeah inevitably it's going to change because of the political landscape and obviously the changes that have been going on in the big stakeholders in education such as Offstead which then has an impact on school priorities and filters down into classrooms.

So yeah it's going to continually change. It'll always be in a flux of change, and I think if you are working in education, you. You expect that's normal for us. But these things have a way of going ground in a circle, don't they? Yeah I'm sure what I was doing when I was a newly qualified teacher will come back and we'll be doing it in the classroom.

In another five years. 

Philippa: So those part, because I guess over my period of the last kind of seven, eight months of, interviewing people who are [00:04:00] all passionate about play and children in, and a variety of settings. I think one of the things that I have picked up and I'm really interested in is the.

Is that things are, more structured and there's less free play. Or free time or, and that there is a structured approach to learning. That doesn't necessarily include. The wider let's see what happens. It's almost, we need to do it in this way. And I suppose I'm wondering if that comes not from the teachers who would happily maybe play, but it comes from the decisions at the top that are saying, these are your.

I don't know. Your outcomes that you need to meet. [00:05:00] And that, those outcomes drive, I think what you were saying, what goes on in the classroom. It would you say that's true from your experience? 

Charlotte: Yeah, I would say that's an accurate perception of what happens in schools. The thing is, when student teachers qualify and they go into school.

They're of a mindset that they want to fit in the school environment, in the school's culture. It's a community of practice that's probably very well established and they know that they have to fit in to get on in school. Because. That's just you are, you're a large team.

You may have your own classroom, but you're always going to be working with other teachers, teaching assistants or the support staff or the multi-professional. They very quickly lose that sense of agency that we encourage them to [00:06:00] have in initial teacher education. We want.

We want teachers to qualify and be critical thinkers and be highly reflective of their practice and ensure that their practice is research informed. But because of the challenges that they face when they enter full time into a school community, it can be sometimes very difficult for them to hold onto that.

Yeah. And very. Quickly become immersed in that community of practice and what their priorities are and how they do things and what the policies are what, the strengths of the school are, and. What they're working towards. So it is forgotten very quickly, but picking up your point that you made about play in school.

Yeah, I would completely agree with the fact that schools are under such pressure to make sure that they get the results that they [00:07:00] need to get and they are performing in all areas of their school development plan that quite often play. Is isolated to break, times and lunchtime in key stage one and two.

The early years foundation stage curriculum is a little bit different because that's play centered. It's, meant to be all about exploration of the prime and specific areas and that's what nurseries and preschool should really be focusing on. But then that can make the transition.

Incredibly difficult then for children even into reception. And then obviously key stage one moving up to key stage two. So yeah it's, really difficult because I've always been an advocate for play throughout key stage one and two as well, particularly role play in classrooms. But teachers are under such strict timetables and, are [00:08:00] required, so much required of them that it's very difficult for them to push back in regards to how they set up their classrooms and how they run their school day. 

Philippa: Yeah and, I guess, I suppose that makes me then think about children learn in different ways. I I don't conform very easily and never really have.

Do you know what I mean? Yeah. So if I, just think if I was in a classroom today. I, feel that I would really, struggle with that and I don't feel now that's because of my intellect or my ability to learn or my ability to engage. I really want to engage with people. I really want to be with people, but if if I had to be.

Taught how people are taught now. I think I would really [00:09:00] struggle. For me, I went to a school where I was, there was lots of sports and I was, very sporty, so my teachers gave me lots of outs to go and swim, to go and play netball, to go and play rounders. The condition was that I produced a piece of work.

Yes. But I knew that if I produced this piece of work, I could then go and run round the we. Were very lucky. And I had football fields and, stuff like that, and I could go and practice my netball. I could come back in and do another piece of work and then go in the swimming pool. There was ways that harnessed my learning.

We actually changed schools when I was 13 for my last two years of school, and they didn't have any sports and I didn't go to school. And. I suppose what I feel or, see now from children I work with is there is a lot less of that ability [00:10:00] to to, help people learn in different ways.

Children learn in different ways. I don't know if I'm being unfair. Do you know what, yeah. What's your experience of that? 

Charlotte: Yeah I, would agree with that. I think. Teachers, particularly in primary school, are very creative in the way that they, go about designing their lessons, their pedagogical approach to their teaching.

And I think. We certainly do it at the university. We encourage the student teachers to think about the different ways in which children learn and how we can ensure that all the lessons that we plan to teach cater for those different ways of learning. And teachers can be very creative in terms of how then they deliver the outcomes that they need to deliver within the.

Constraints of the school day. [00:11:00] But. I completely understand where you are coming from, your experience of school, and I do think that still happens within school, although it's if, you label your experiences of doing your exercise, if that was play, it could be considered.

That play was a reward then for doing the output. I don't myself encourage that because I think personally I feel that play should be at the center of everything we do in education. Absolutely not to rewards. But yeah, I can see why pe, why teachers would use those ways of engaging with children perhaps who find it challenging to learn in a conventional way.

As a teacher, though, I completely get your perspective about me going back into school and kind of working within an environment that I've been out of for a decade. [00:12:00] And actually rather like yourself, I do struggle to conform with things I don't philosophically, ideologically agree with. And I've had that freedom within the university to explore my ideals, my beliefs, my views research.

Elements of education that I want to there is that kind of sense of a freedom to to really I get to grips with what I believe in. It's been surprisingly easy to settle back into nursery. I'm actually a teaching assistant in the nursery class. And the teacher, the lead within that classroom is a higher level teaching assistant.

So I'm a qualified teacher that is teaching assistant at the moment, and I purposely chose that role [00:13:00] because I. Wanted to challenge myself in terms of going back into the classroom and being able to do that role. It's a challenge for me. The role itself, what I have to do as a teaching assistant is very easy to me because I've come from the background that I've come from I know exactly what I'm doing.

I don't need any support from anybody. I can just. Be asked to teach something and I can teach it. 

Philippa: Yeah. So can you, describe what a teaching assistant is? So what, do you do as a teaching assistant? What is that? Teaching 

Charlotte: assistant supports the lead of the classroom, whether that's a qualified teacher or in early years, a higher level teaching assistant.

So I turn up at quarter to nine every day, and I leave at quarter past three. I have half an hour for lunch. There's nothing additional that I have to do that a qualified teacher or a room lead would do. I literally turn up and wait [00:14:00] for instruction. 

Philippa: Okay, and what would that be then? What is the role?

What, what are teaching assistants needs to do? 

Charlotte: Supporting the pastoral needs of the children, social and emotional needs of the children, working with small groups under the direction of the lead or the teaching practitioner cleaning the paint pots, doing a display, tied the classrooms, sorting snack outs, playing with the children on the playground.

So it's anything really that the teaching as assistant or the room lead requires of me to enable them to do the role that they're there to do as successfully as possible. 

Philippa: Yeah, because I guess we often think that teaching assistants just work with the children that are a little bit more fizzy or a little bit more bouncy and kind of need that little bit extra support to maybe access the room or the learning. [00:15:00] I guess that's part of the role, but you are saying actually it's more than that. 

Charlotte: You have different types of teaching assistants in school. Okay. So a general teaching assistant is usually funded by the schools, by the school itself, and is there to do all of those general, broader roles, whereas.

The kind of teaching assistant that you are referring to is a one-to-one support or small group support. Okay. Who Usually there will be a pot of funding specifically to help children with specific needs. 

Philippa: Okay, so 

Charlotte: there's a slight difference and they might do some of the general tasks that I've also described as a teaching assistant generally.

But it's just where that funding comes from and how it's used that will be different. 

Philippa: Okay. And if there's a, if there's a part of funding that then means of the teaching assistant where the funding is in. Is paying for their role 'cause it could be male [00:16:00] or female. That they then are almost ring fenced.

So if it's to work with me, because I'm a bit fizzy. Yes. then then really they would primarily work with me. That might be in a group. Yes. That there might be three or four other children. Because but, they would be primarily supporting me to be able to access that group or access that play, or access that learning.

Charlotte: Yeah. Exactly. 

Philippa: Whereas your role is paid for by the school, so you are available to any child or any task that's Yeah. That is needed of you within the classroom. 

Charlotte: Exactly. We do in early years have specific ratios because the children are very young. So I am like a key worker for a group of children.

So I do have a regular group that I'm responsible for the outcomes of their learning. But I am available to everybody all the time. In [00:17:00] any case. 

Philippa: Okay. And have you, I suppose one of the things I also wonder is do you think plays changed? Or maybe that's not the right question. I'm, I think I might be asking the wrong question.

I wonder if children coming into nursery, if. Where they're accessing play. Is different than it was 10 years ago. Absolutely. Okay. 

Charlotte: Can you explain a little bit about that? I'm sure many people have said to you about the impact of screens. 

Philippa: Yeah, that's where I was going without actually going there.

I just didn't want to leave. I didn't want to close the question, but yeah. 

Charlotte: Yeah, there is no doubt that technology has had a massive impact on the way in which families engage with each other. In, in, in the home. And when you work in nursery many children have never been to any other provision.

They've just, they've been at home with [00:18:00] mom and dad or with other family members until they come into nursery at two years old or even younger in some provisions. It can be quite challenging to begin with, and we'll have this in September in terms of reintroducing children into, play in a nursery context.

Yeah, I think you're completely right. Things, have changed, but I also think things have changed within nursery and early years settings in terms of our environments as well. When you go into different schools, I know this from my role with the university. Sometimes you walk into classrooms, everything is neutral.

All your boards of acting hessian, all your toys are wooden toys, open-ended toys and then you'll go into another school and everything's brightly colored. Lots of glitter [00:19:00] lots of decoration all around you. There'll be a mixture of plastic toys, closed activities there, there's lots of nuances between all of the different nursery settings.

Philippa: I suppose I was reading I, I'll come back to that if you don't mind. 'cause I and ask your view about that really. But one of the things I was reading, just going back to screens, was just, it was only a small research that had done and some nursery teachers had, been saying that actually they've had children coming into their class who, have been playing with screens for the majority of their kind of play.

And that they are either speaking in Americanisms. So there's so like trash can and I guess things like that. And also somewhere their sensory development hasn't their, actual physical development hasn't developed in the way that it [00:20:00] should.

And they like really get tired climbing upstairs or playing. 'cause they actually haven't had that physical activity. They've just been sitting. Playing on screens. Have you experienced any those kind of yeah, 

Charlotte: absolutely. Yeah, I would say so. Concentration levels can be a challenge. Building focus for children when they initially come into an educational setting and that.

Research does show us that is often because the amount of time they spend on screens and the fact that a lot of the programs that they engage with on screens are all about instant gratification. Yeah. There's always going to be a reward at the end of whatever they're doing on the screen.

And actually to come into a room where you know, you've got. Toys all around you. Carefully created environments to make sure that we are ensuring all the [00:21:00] different elements of the curriculum are covered. But the fact that they have that free play, open play within the room can be very overwhelming for some children, particularly the ones that have spent a lot of time on screens.

Language, definitely. It's had such an impact even from back in COVID. We are still feeling the impact of language development issues even now as children come through because it just fundamentally changed what family life was like at home. So yes, communication and language is a big factor in terms of you fine motor skills.

I wouldn't say I've experienced anyone having issues with physical development. So your gross motor skills quite as much because of screen time. I can't say that I have seen that, but I can see how that would [00:22:00] happen. 

Philippa: Yeah. Yeah. And I guess the other thing that I, wonder sometimes I notice is that. I, guess Julie and I talk a lot about co-regulation and the importance of kind of rupture and repair and, that you have naturally where in, in child relationships and that that, that, kind of developing, an understanding of, of, your big feelings. And you do that in relation to your, big adult, don't you? Actually, I'm frustrated 'cause I can't have this toy that my brother's playing with, but mom steps in or dad steps in, or granny and helps me manage those big feelings. So actually by the time I'm coming in school I know that they haven't got it mastered. You don't get it mastered. I don't even know at 50. I've got it mastered, but I guess you've got more ability to co-regulate with, the adults in the room. But I suppose what [00:23:00] I, this is something for me particularly, is that what is, The screen becomes the co-regulating factor. Is that when you are have got a big feeling, you access a screen. 

Charlotte: And 

Philippa: then that com calms you down. And I suppose what I wonder is, how children then manage to do that co-regulation, to do some self-regulation. That I guess it's still tricky at that little tiny age.

But you would, I wonder if that has changed those abilities to regulate those emotions? Or not? 

Charlotte: I dunno. Probably has, yes. But I think when they enter the, nursery preschool environment, earlier environment predominantly they don't have screens. Other than an interactive whiteboard maybe.

[00:24:00] There isn't that free flow access to screens. No. I suppose what I was meaning was, is if they, haven't experienced co-regulation at home that. And they've, the screens have been the things that have helped them to manage those big feelings when they come into nursery and it isn't available how they manage to act do you know 

what 

Philippa: I mean?

Yeah. I think that's 

Charlotte: the same with any child that comes into nursery though. Yeah. You are in a new environment with new. Yeah. So all of them have got to start from scratch. Yeah. Yeah. So to speak new expectations, routines, ways of doing things. For us as adults, in terms of regulation, it's all about modeling.

We model to the children how to regulate their emotions, how to communicate their emotions, even if they're nonverbal. And quite often early years environments. You do get a lot of mixed [00:25:00] age classes, so you know, you'll have two to four year olds all together. So you have basically two cohorts.

Together, however they're divided up. You would hope that your older children would then model to your younger children as they come through, and it does work very effectively. But I think with children, any kind of change of environment is an opportunity to reset even for those who predominantly have regulated with the screens.

Yeah. 

Philippa: Yeah. And when you talked about nursery and the different environments like that, some are quite neutral and some are quite sparkly and bright, it, does that make a difference 

Charlotte: or some people believe it makes a difference? There's a raft of research that says it does make difference, but for me, I think, I don't really give much thought to it.

And maybe that is the wrong thing to say, but I [00:26:00] feel. As a classroom teacher that my classroom should represent who I am as a teacher and the way in which I teach my class. And that they should feel that they've got ownership over the environment as much as I have. So if they want to stick something brightly colored on the wall that they've made for me, they can do that.

If they wanna hang things from the ceiling. They can do that. And we're meant we follow the children's interests as well in early years, that's fundamental to our planning. If the children's, a couple of the children are sharing a particular interest in dinosaurs, for example it's our responsibility to, to follow through with that and help them explore, give them those those.

Invitations to play and play enhancements that they, need to have to develop that line of thought. So [00:27:00] yeah that's just my approach in a classroom. The requirements for classroom to look the same, for example, the Hessian example and the beige Asian the very natural materials used tend to go throughout the school.

Which surprises me because early years pedagogy is very different for key than key stage two. So, can you just, mine would have a similar Yeah. Environment. I'm not sure. 

Philippa: You've mentioned pedagogy a couple of times. So can you tell us what that is? What does that mean? 

Charlotte: Yeah. Pedagogy is practice, so it's how we do things, how we teach children the choices that we make to deliver.

Whatever the knowledge is that we want to deliver. Or encourage them to explore. 

Philippa: Yeah. Okay. So what you're saying is teaching practice? 

Charlotte: Yes. 

Philippa: 'cause there [00:28:00] is a, big thing about pedagogy isn't there? In, in other, in, I guess in social work there's a theme of that. So it, it pedagogy.

Teaching would be about the teacher and about their practice for social worker, be both social worker and their practice. I guess you can have it in different areas. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So when you're saying it's, so if it's neutral all the way through the school, what you're saying is, actually that the practice is different in or need 

Charlotte: the way in which, yeah.

The way in which you'll go about teaching the stage two curriculum. Most likely is going to be very different to the way the nursery in that school teaches their curriculum. Yes. Yeah. So I always wonder if I was in a school like that, how effective is that way of. Decorating your environment, considering the actual practice of those two teachers would be entirely different.

Philippa: Yeah. 

Charlotte: So [00:29:00] yeah, for me, I think it's all about the teacher in the classroom and it's their environment and it should represent them and their classroom community that they built. 

Philippa: Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And then on top of that Charlotte, you also, so you do the teaching assistant two and a half days, is that right?

Yeah. And then two and a half days you have set up a play hub. 

Charlotte: I have in Lake Staffordshire. The Play Hub has actually been running seven days a week, so it runs without me here as well. I have various different play leaders that work on different rotor shifts. They tend to be people who have experience working with children or aspirations to go into working with children.

That's really important to me. And so yeah, when I'm not here, they do a absolutely fantastic job of doing what needs to be done when I'm not here. [00:30:00] But the Play Hub has really been designed as an environment in which adults and children can come and play together, and that it encourages that early.

Sense of communication, language and literacy. So parents, grandparents, foster carers whoever it may be, brings the child and stays with the child within that time slot. But I feel that we are a little bit different to other offerings. For example, soft play or there are other kind of role play villages out there.

I feel that we are different because we do offer quite a vast array of different toys. All the areas cover the elements of the early years and key stage one curriculum. Everything is changed on a weekly or two weekly basis. Or or if we keep a particular area, the play resources within that area will be enhanced.

It [00:31:00] very much rather like an earlier classroom changes with the interests of, the children and the adults that come along. 

Philippa: So what made you want to set that up? 'cause that's a lot of, because you work in Saturdays and Sundays as well. That's a lot of, work. What was it that inspired you to do 

Charlotte: that?

I think anyone that works in education usually works in education because it's their passion. They love it. We always give above and beyond. You know what we perhaps should it's definitely a vocation and I don't know, I just felt like there was something missing. There was something missing out of the offering around me.

And I've been thinking about it for quite a long time, probably 10 years, to be honest. I always knew I wanted to try and create something that was a little bit different. [00:32:00] And the play leaders, aside from doing the usual. Activities that people do when they work in a business are also there to model interactions with children within the environment as well.

Because quite often when somebody has a baby and they start off on that very exciting journey, lots of moms can be very anxious about how to communicate and engage with their baby and then their toddler. And it's important to me. That we are a very accepting community and we all learn from each other.

And that's why we do our baby groups as well at the Play Hub, so people can develop friendships and return each week as and when they can and see familiar faces. And the same for the grandparents too. 

Philippa: Okay. Okay. So the, those are come along sessions and. Parents, grandparents, whoever their big adult is, [00:33:00] stays with them and plays with them.

So it's not a drop off and leave. This is about building that connection, building that imaginative play together. And how do you find that? How, 'cause again I wonder if lots of. Lots of families. I'm making a very generalization here and I apologize, but we have a lot of structured activities that we do with our children, don't we?

We take them to scouts, we take them to gymnastics. We take them to art class or, but. But there's not many places where as a big person, you stay with your child and and be even for little ones, I think now Yeah. That they're taken and, they do something and then they're collected again.

So I guess that's a different thing. How do you find that? 

Charlotte: I would say the majority of parents come and actively engage with their child from the offset. Because I do feel for a lot of parents, it's quite [00:34:00] exciting too when they come in all the different ways in which we've set things up, how the environment flows from one area to the other.

So you can actually see parents get excited to play with their child perhaps in a way they haven't done at home. Yeah, it's, I think it's quite inspiring for many. And we do have some parents that initially come and are a little bit nervous about how to interact, but they do soon get involved.

It's, very rare that we have parents that's. Sit on their phones, on benches. That doesn't tend to happen at the Play Hub. I think from the outset there's this kind of silent expectation that you are now here to play. That's what we do here. We all play together. Yeah. 

Philippa: And I wonder if in some ways, as an adult, we, Julie and I often talk about this, is that we lose that [00:35:00] play somewhere along the line and becoming an adult.

So I wonder if coming into somewhere like the Play Hub, it all most gives you permission to put your policeman's hat on or make those little cakes and pretend. Absolutely. And that is just amazing 

Charlotte: to do those things, isn't it? So many parents end up in the jail, do they?

Yeah, but what's really interesting at the moment is it's the school holidays and we are getting a lot of older siblings coming with younger siblings and their parents or grandparents, and it is really refreshing to see them engage and play with the toys. Just as much as the younger children do.

Their imaginations just flourish. I have a rule that if they want to come and play, they come to play. They don't have phones, they don't have tablets while they're here, and parents are told that at the desk they have to come and play with the other children. And everybody's really respectful of that.

And quite often the older [00:36:00] ones come in a little bit like, I'm too cool for this. I don't want to be here. And then usually Lou's saying, oh, I've had a great time. Yeah. It's really nice to see 8, 9, 10, 11, 12 year olds. Yeah. Yeah. Playing with the other children. Yeah. And I guess, 

Philippa: yeah, I guess with them in some ways it gives them permission to do that.

Yeah. Go and do that little bit of play. Oh, I've got to do it. 'cause Charlotte said I've got to do it. My brother says that my brothers are here and I've got but actually they're really enjoying kind of being a chef and whatever it is that they're doing. So that's really nice.

And I guess as a family, it gives them a space where they can come and play as a family. 'cause again, that can be really hard, can't it? That people do different things and, yeah. A lot of things are resourced out rather than in nowadays, aren't they? 

Charlotte: Yes. Yeah. Yeah, 

Philippa: absolutely. And you've got a little [00:37:00] space where they can eat and 

Charlotte: have a snack as well.

Oh yes, we have a tuck shop. We don't really have, we don't have a cafe as such. People are allowed to bring their own food and drinks to us, which again, is quite unconventional in terms of play centers. Quite often you have to pay to get in and then you are not allowed your own food. You have to buy from them.

Yeah. Yeah. I didn't want it to be like that. 'cause I think that cuts off a lot of parents, particularly in the holidays where money is. Tight. People can bring their full blown picnic if they want and sit on the tables and chairs. They don't have to have anything from us. 

Philippa: Yeah. 

Charlotte: So yeah, we'd like to give that flexibility.

Philippa: Yeah. Yeah. And that's really good. So what, where, when you say there was a gap what, did, was it the gap in this free play, this imaginative play? Yeah. Imaginative 

Charlotte: play high quality resources as well, because we do have, in leak, we have a lot of, community ran [00:38:00] little playgroups, which are brilliant in that are.

Nothing bad to say about them. Do you know what I mean? They're brilliance. They do what they're there to do. It can be a lifeline for a lot of people as with most community groups, they don't have a lot of funding. I and I, as a result of that, the resources that they've got are going to be limited.

We quite often have been in the playgroup for however long, do you know what I mean? Yeah. Factories have gone, they've lost pieces of them. Completely understandable. I wanted to make sure that the Play Hub, everything was. High quality toys, everything is checked, safety wise, batteries are replaced.

I wanted to make sure that magic was maintained. Every time children return to the hub every week, there has to be something different in our environment. So even our annual pass holders have something new to look forward to. [00:39:00] 

Philippa: Yeah, And have you had, how long have you been going now, Charlotte?

A year. A year. And how has that year been when you reflect back over the year? What, what's it been like? Wild. We've learned a lot. Yes, absolutely. 

Charlotte: Yeah. We, lease the building that we have Bank House and Le off Lake Town Council. It is a very large historical building. It is, it's a listed building.

It's got so many rooms, I can't count them. And it's been empty for a very long time when we moved in. So we've had to do a lot of remedial work throughout the past 12 months. So inevitably the Play Hub has changed in lots of ways to account for that. So yeah it, continues to change all the time 'cause we've now got a nursery.

Which is set up on the ground floor with us, the Play Hub, and they have [00:40:00] access to our resources, we can work with them as well. And the rest of the building is sublet out to different little small businesses who perhaps wouldn't be able to get their startup in any kind of commercial town location other than to come here where you know, it's.

Very small subletting rent and all the bills are included. And that also was important to me that you know it, we created that hub community. It wasn't just play Hub, it extends out from that and all the practitioners that meant the rooms are. Me, we all seem to be very similar people in the way in which we put things, we've attracted each other and we're all doing things for the community.

We're offering services to the community. We've got leak radio on the top floor which is A-A-C-I-C we've got Wellbeing services, yoga, Pilates, [00:41:00] women's Group. Reflexology. We offer everything in that regard. There's not a lot that you won't get from the Play Hub in terms of community, 

Philippa: and that sounds amazing to have all those people together serving the community and supporting one another.

What an amazing year really to get that all together. 

And has the Play Hub grown with, with. children's attendance as they've enjoyed it and shared their experience. 

Charlotte: I think the challenge with any small business nowadays is getting the word out there social media presence.

I am not the most technological person. Never have been. I have had to learn a lot this year to get any kind of healthy following, and there's still more that I can do. We've only just recently put signs up on the [00:42:00] windows of bank House that we're here because we've just not been able to afford to do it, and. We could do more in terms of reaching out to the wider community. People in Link, grandparents in Link still don't know that we exist because they're not on social media. So there's a lot of work still to do with spreading the word and hopefully when the sunshine vanishes people will be looking more for somewhere to come.

With, their children. Yeah. 

Philippa: Yeah. And where do you see this going forward? Where, what's your plan for the next yeah, next 12 months to 

Charlotte: survive really Philippa. Yeah. Yeah. There's been such a political change in the landscape for small businesses since the budget last October.

I took on the lease of this building in May within six months of us being here, business [00:43:00] rate reductions for small businesses significantly decreased. The business rates for this building are 20,000 pounds. And it went from like a 75% reduction that you could apply for to a 40% reduction.

Dunno whether that's accurate figures, but it is quite a big chunk. Yeah. The national insurance increases increases to everything. Food, utilities. This and the National Living Wage has gone up as well. Yeah. We've had a lot of change that wasn't in my forecast. Yeah, Originally. So yeah. My, my task this year is to keep the Play Hub going. 

Philippa: Yeah. '

Charlotte: cause I do feel it's creating an impact in the community. 

Philippa: Yeah. 

Charlotte: And I feel that parents. Parents are very verbal about that. Very vocal when they come in. The feedback's always so positive. So I think we've just got to [00:44:00] keep doing what we're doing and yeah.

Help people 

Philippa: to find us. Absolutely. So I will put on the end of this your, you've got a Facebook page that I know I follow, and there's some great pictures in that you put on there. All bright and happy and lovely. But I'll put it on the bottom of this. A po. Do you have a website? 

Charlotte: We do.

It's just leak play hub.co.uk. 

Philippa: Okay, I'll put all your bits on there. So if people are listening to this and they're in the kind of Stafford LANs area, or they're visiting 'cause we get loads of Yeah, they do. People where we live. 'cause I live not far, from you guys. It's like we've always got visitors coming, haven't we?

Yeah. Because we've got, we're right by the peaks. We're right by the roaches boxton, all those places. So if people are coming on holiday and they've got a wet [00:45:00] Wednesday, more Wednesday afternoon then and they went somewhere, then maybe the Lee Co would be 'cause again, leak. It's.

South has also got some great little cafes and great little community places, hasn't it? So they could combine and visit with with a Play Hub and a Coffee in the Fox low. And you know what, a great afternoon that would be, wouldn't it? Yeah, I hope so. Absolutely. Well, thank you so much for your time.