Episode 13 Play and Little City; An interview with Vicki Fletcher

In today's episode, Philippa interviews Vicki, the founder of Little City, which is a mobile role-play centre for little people. She shares her love of Sylvanian families and how she wanted to move away from corporate life and spend more time with her children and family.

Vicki shares the excitement that little people get from role-playing real-life experiences, and how this develops connection and shared joy with parents, caregivers, and the staff themselves. The mobile city is inclusive and diverse and the staff adapt sessions to support the communities and groups that are accessing them from all over the country.

Website: https://www.littlecityuk.com/

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Transcript

This transcript is autogenerated in the editing of the podcast - therefore, there are errors as we don't have time to correct the transcript 

Play and Little City - An interview with Vicki Fletcher

[00:00:00] 

Philippa: Hello and welcome to this week's episode of Pondering Play and Therapy with me Philippa and this week my guest is Vicki Fletcher and she is the owner and founder of Little City UK, a mobile role play centre for under fives. Originally started in 2017 after the birth of her second daughter, and with a desire not to return to corporate life.

Little City became an alternative toddler group to soft play, music or phonics classes for local children. And since 2017, the business has franchised and Little City has now 35 branches across the UK. 2024 they welcomed over 100, 000. children into the city, offering pay as you go events for local [00:01:00] families, weekend parties, and weekday school workshops for preschool up to year one aged children.

The city is aimed to be role play adventure for all and can be easily adapted for children with additional needs or mobility concerns. Little City is a place where children can be whoever they want to be, all whilst modeling and playing things. they see in everyday life. They can be Spider Man in a mini supermarket or dress up as a police officer and arrest the princess in three bears pretend cafe.

I really want to go here. All whilst riding a pretend motorbike if they wish. Cities host a range of interactive high quality pre dominantly wooden Toys and resources that every child can recognize and enjoy. Every child loves to serve their parents with a cup [00:02:00] of coffee or a cup of tea at the little city.

They really can just test out roles, behaviors, and games they see in the everyday real world. Vicky's also a mummy to two daughters, now nine and eight, has a boisterous teenage dog called Neville, and is supported by her husband Andrew, who she says has a real job, and doesn't play with toys all day.

I think, Vicky, it sounds like you have a pretty busy job and life. So welcome to this episode. That sounds amazing. 

Vicki: Thank you. It's good fun. I won't lie. It's more fun than sitting in an office every day for sure. 

Philippa: So have you always been interested in play? So growing up were you kid who had all the imagination and got all your dressing up stuff out?

What's play like for you as you grew? 

Vicki: I have no background in children and learning or anything like that. But as a kid, I was very much into my [00:03:00] Sylvanians. I was small world clay, but I was also, there's a whole story going on behind them. It's like, Mrs. Mouse is coming to the supermarket and we're doing all this. So I was really into that. I was definitely into my Barbies and we were having, Games, I'm sure with my brother and friends in the garden, everyone have a role and you're going to do this and then we're going to do this and I definitely see my kids doing that now as well, whether they get that from me or my husband, but I was not necessarily creative, but there was a story behind everything.

There was a world. And I liked real life things. I do remember going, Oh, I wish I was a grown up, and I know lots of kids do. So I think, yeah. There's that element as well that I was, the kids in the Sylvanians are going to the shops and they're having babies and they're getting married and things like that.

That was my world. 

Philippa: So the Sylvanians are like little mice or little people, a bit similar to role playing things out of what you've turned Little City from it into. 

Vicki: Yeah, definitely. I've got vintage Sylvanians now. They're 30 years old. My children are playing with them.

It's great. But yeah, there's a mouse family. There's an elephant family. There's a rabbit [00:04:00] family. And yeah, we will be acting out, what they're doing. And I was very lucky. I was a very spoiled child. I had the house and I had the tree house for them and they had a caravan and all that kind of thing.

So I was fully into that stuff. Yeah, absolutely. Same with Barbies and Cindy's and stuff as well. 

Philippa: Okay. And as you went into the teenage years, how did play develop for you then? 

Vicki: Do you know whether I played as much as a teenager. I know I was still playing later than possibly some of my peers.

It would have been something that I was still playing with at home and, not telling people at school, that's what I'm doing. And that's what I still like doing. But I think I was then into more games and, love a board game or loved doing something in the garden, hanging out, playing, doing something, but it was more grown up as it were.

Philippa: And when you had your daughters, how did those experiences of that early play influence how you played and, interacted with your daughters and what did you notice? 

Vicki: So when I had the girls, I [00:05:00] think I forgot, I think we do, I think, I'd gone in, in a normal job, in a normal world, I'd been to university, I got a job and did the whole single life thing.

You forget how to play and having them, I was like, Oh. I don't know what to do now. What do I do? And it was really interesting. So my husband's family and his mum works with children, she works in nurseries all the time. So he's always been around that. So he instantly knew what to do and to be silly and to interact with them with silly toys and give voices to the animals and all those sorts of things.

And I watched that and I was like, Oh yeah, that's what the kids like. That's what they like doing. And then as they're my eldest daughter got a bit older. So she was about 18 months old. We were really, we were spending all our time serving cups of tea. And someone gifted her a doctor set that they found at a car boot sale.

And this was life. This was like, we were constantly being doctors for all our toys. And I was told to lay down on the sofa and that kind of thing. I was like, Oh, this is what, I liked it. This is my kind of play. I'm less [00:06:00] imaginative now and I'm less, let's give voices to things. That's not, I don't know.

I don't enjoy it as much, but give me a craft, give me a role play because I know, and then the girls really took to it as well. They were all over it. So that's how it's evolved definitely for me and I found it fun as well. I could see them learning and the cogs going and then they'd mimic you.

You'd see, they'd see something we'd been in the cafe or the supermarket and then they were doing it at home. I was like, you watch me all the time, don't you? And you don't, realize how much they are watching you at all. 

Philippa: Yeah. And did you keep your Sylvanian families and did you share those with your girls or are they precious now?

Vicki: Yeah, they're very expensive. But no, so actually my mom had moved house a couple of times and each time she's like, can we give these to you? There's boxes and boxes of them. And they laughed and I was like, all right. So we've moved with them with my husband several times before we had the girls.

And then it got to the time where I was like, I'm going to crack these out now. It's time. It's [00:07:00] time. They can come out of the loft and be played with. And I must say, it's only in the last couple of years that they've really appreciated them. And then, so my youngest daughter now got really into them in the last summer holidays.

To the point that she saved up pocket money to play with them. My big girl is less into the small world play. She is very much, she likes a mud kitchen, and then she'll write a menu. She's very much academic. There's got to be a structure to it. I'm gonna do your mud kitchen, there's a cafe, and there will be a menu, and you're gonna choose things off this menu.

But my youngest is now, yeah, Sylvanian's full on, lays them all out, has very particular where everything goes, very similar to what I used to do as well. 

Philippa: That's just made me think, you noticed a difference in play as your children grew. So like, when they're babies, they need one type of play and then, and what did you notice kind of having two girls?

Were they different in the way that they developed and their interests or were they the same? 

Vicki: So it was really funny. [00:08:00] I, so they both went to a childminder. When I went back to my normal job before I started Little City, and the childminder, I picked them up that evening and she was like, have you got any babies at home, like dolls?

I was like, well, no, we've got the usual stuff. We have a bit of duplo and all those sorts of things. She said, your girls are obsessed with dolls. I was like, are they? Hadn't played with them or thought about it, but that's all they've been doing at the Childminders.

And so that was really interesting, because they're so close in age, they then really took on babies and dolls. It was a very, stereotypical girl thing. Definitely as they've got older and changed, they love doing things together, but my youngest is very much more into craft. She's very particular and precise, and now the Sylvanians, it's all got to be in its rightful place.

My big girl is very logical. She is Lego heavy at the moment. But if they're playing together, they will reenact things around. They love playing schools, which I find fascinating. Like you've been at school all [00:09:00] week. Why do you want to reenact this? But they are, one's a teacher and the other one's not.

And what I found really interesting as well is because school are so open and chatting about it all the time about neurodiverse children. So one of them will take on a role and not in a. in a derogatory or nasty way at all, but they're like, well, I'm autistic. And I'm, so they act out the child in their classroom who might be autistic.

And it's very sweet. It's very nice. And then they pretend to be the teacher and they'll behave differently as the different classroom. And I found that really fascinating. They just, they want to model it and play it and try it out. It's really, yeah, it's really fascinating, but they, they do have distinct differences, but also they don't come together and play quite nicely as well.

So I'm lucky. I'm very lucky. 

Philippa: I suppose, processing the information they're getting from the outside world, isn't it? So people aren't all the same, and there's a name for some differences, and it's that thing that we, it's okay. to interact differently with different people.

Yes. Because I guess when you're [00:10:00] very little, there's a thing about fairness that everything has to be the same. And then there's a developmental change, where children can begin to conceptualize. It can still be fair, but different. 

Vicki: Yes, yeah, definitely. It's, it's really interesting watching them or hearing them playing, so I don't get involved in the school play.

But the one child who takes on the role of the teacher will treat, so there's only two of them, but the second child is being all the children in the classroom. And they'll go, well now I'm Justin, for example, and he's the autistic one, so he will behave slightly differently. And the girl that's taking on the role of the teacher, is doing something

and then they'll change roles. Like, no, I'm Rosie now. And then, and then that Rosie is a bit different completely. And it's really, really fascinating how they adopt those different personalities, but also the teacher role changes as well. Yeah, it's, yeah, really interesting. But then they get into full hardcore lessons and they do their phonics in that classroom.

It's pretty, uh, fun. They get [00:11:00] marks and merits and all sorts. Great fun. 

Philippa: And what age were your children when you started Little City? And what made you start Little City with two young children? 

Vicki: So I, I'd go back to work. My youngest was just under a year when we started intercity. So yeah, 2017 and I, I just was, I think Instagram told me, I'm a slave to marketing, but Facebook or something, there was a.

roleplay centre up in Norfolk. And I saw that and I was like, Oh, that looks really fun. Now, because they've been playing babies and doctors at home, I was like, they'll love that, let's, give that a try. A friend up there and I said, let's go and meet there, let's go and test it out because it would be really cool, because I couldn't find one locally.

And so we went and had to try it out and the girls had a blast, it was brilliant. Yeah, just fully interacting, good two hours worth of play really loved it. And I came home and I was like, there must be something local to me. There must be, and there wasn't. So I was like, well, I could do that.

Could I do that? [00:12:00] And I was, you know, I don't have any experience in this. Could I do this? And I said it to my husband and he was like, well, You could, but that's a lot of money. You have to take on a unit, you have to take on a permanent site that involves staff, that involves building it. And I was like, yeah, this is, this is crazy.

And I looked at other franchises. There's a couple others, in the South of England who do static, what we call a permanent role play center and they franchised it, but again, that was hundreds of thousands of pounds. It's like, I'm not gambling my mortgage on this or anything like that. This could not work.

So parked it. And then I was chatting to a friend and one of my, friends, well, why don't you do it mobile? Could you do it mobile?, just get a van and do it from there and you can set up and you can run around with it. And I was like, no, that wouldn't work 

and then, of course, I'm going to all these groups with the girls, the music classes and the phonics classes, which are great. I think there's definitely, my girl's got so much from these classes. But, and then I was like, well, there must be something different because I personally, I'm not a fan of soft play.

So I find them. overstimulating, [00:13:00] noisy, and there's no windows, I find them really quite draining. Kids obviously love them, and get a bit hyper. So this mobile idea stuck with me, and then I said to my husband, I was like, could we do it mobile? And he didn't say no, at this point, I think that's the, that's the key point, is he didn't say no.

And then we came up with this plan of, he helped me build this framework out of wood, in the garden, in the shed. And how it fits together and how I can pull it apart and put it back together again. And that's, yeah, literally how it started. So we opened in October 2017. Alice was 13 months old, my youngest.

So there's still videos somewhere of me with her on my back, just setting up the city, running these sessions, her asleep in a pushchair, all that kind of thing, because they had to come with me. I was still doing my normal job. and Little City around it just to see if it would work or not, if it was worth the gamble.

Philippa: What is Little City then? Just so you have this idea and you're going to go mobile. So what is it? What are you going to bring to the world? 

Vicki: Well, so it's [00:14:00] essentially a role play centre. For the under fives. 

Philippa: Just for some people, it's that interaction where you pretend to be somebody else.

So when they're playing, schools, that's role play. Yes. But you are taking some equipment to help encourage that kind of pretending to be somebody else or something else in the world. 

Vicki: Absolutely. We have a framework essentially which creates the world that they're going to play in and it's all at the children's height.

So we have a mini supermarket, a mini cafe, a doctor's surgery, a vet's, a garage, post office, all the things that the kids see every day in their lives, that they can't normally get involved with. In the supermarket, they're stuck in the trolley, or they might be helping walking around, but generally they can't do a lot of it.

In the cafe, you've got to sit down nicely and you've got to wait for your drink to arrive and that kind of thing. They go to the post office all the time. They might post the letters, but they can't put the stamps on or anything like [00:15:00] that. So role play is really very much giving them the opportunity to do it for themselves.

But all the toys and equipment, of are laid out at their height. There is nothing out of bounds. So some of it might be real world things. So for example, in the emergency services area, loads of kids love being police officers, fire officers, but we've got real old telephones, that they wouldn't see nowadays, it's not really, but they all know what to do.

And they're pressing the buttons. We've got old laptops, that are not plugged in or anything. That they can throw around, but they're practicing because they've seen their mummy or daddy on a laptop or a computer. So it's, and then the backdrops, the grid layout that we have, it's a bit abstract to explain without images, but they're designed so every bay the child goes into, and it's very photogenic, but it's bright colorful backgrounds as well, so it sparks your imagination.

So when they walk into the supermarket bay, it looks and feels like they're in a supermarket. There is a counter, there's a trolley, there's a till, some shelves, there's some fruit and vegetables, there's a bag, [00:16:00] and they can do everything that they might want to do. They can open the till and get the card out or the money for their parent or carer, there's a supermarket shopping list.

you know, with a bit of phonics on there, but imagery and they go, okay, find me an apple. And they find an apple on the supermarket shelves. So they, they're very much doing it themselves. And in the same, in the post office, they can post the letters. It's all at their height. That post box is not too high for them.

They can open the post box and take the letters out again. So there's all those gross and fine motor skills that they're practicing as well. But they just think they're having a grand old time posting letters. 

Philippa: Do parents get to play in there with them or do you sit and have a cup of coffee and let the kids go and play? 

Vicki: No, ever since we started, I'm very encouraging that parents are getting involved. We know you're time poor as a parent. When you're at home, you don't get a chance to. play, necessarily.

You've got to put the washing machine and go answer the door. You've got to do the washing up, something like that. So at Little City, we do put chairs. We use village halls and community centers and [00:17:00] scout huts and that kind of thing for our events. We do put chairs around, but not many. And that's on purpose.

If someone needs a chair, of course, please have a chair. You've got to breastfeed your tiny baby or, you've got a mobility issue. Please have a chair. But we put less chairs out to encourage the parents and carers to interact with the kids. So we've got, again, loads of images are lovely. The parents just sat on the floor being served a cup of tea or, pretending to have a broken arm in the doctor's surgery.

And the child's fully into it. They put the doctor's jacket on. They've got the pretend glasses on. And you see the parents and carers and grandparents, so many grandparents come through, having those conversations with the kids. And the kids are being, it almost sounds bossy, but they're like, no, no, no, you're going to do this now.

And this is what happens. And because they've seen it and watched it, they know there's a sequence of things that are going to happen in that area as well. So they're just practicing and testing it out and giving it a whirl. It's really funny to see. And no child interacts with their [00:18:00] parents or carers the same.

It's really, in the seven years that we've been doing it, every child approaches it slightly differently. No one does it the same. And I love that as well. Some will. Be whizzing around as Spider Man because yeah, there's a, I'm going to be the robber or whatever it might be. But their brothers are very particular about it and they're lining it all up and they're, piling the shopping 

very, very different. It's fun. 

Philippa: And do you think the children get more out of it when the parents are engaged? Oh, massively. Than if the parents were sitting around? 

Vicki: Yeah, for sure. You do have some children who are clearly in their own zone and want to get on with it and do it themselves. But in other times they, you see the enjoyment and the joy that they get from, serving mummy a cup of cake and she'd go, Oh, that's delicious.

Or it's too hot. Or something like that. They absolutely love it. And it just starts those conversations with the parents as well, because then when they go out into the big wide world, they can say, oh do you remember when you did that at Little City? And we have so many parents say to us, I [00:19:00] didn't know, one of the funny ones, we have a laundrette, in some of the cities and there's an ironing board, pretend ironing board and iron in there.

And all the parents say, I don't do any ironing at home, how do they know how to iron? And the kids just did their merrily ironing, no problem. And that in itself is where they pick this up. And they'll show them and the kids know how to empty the washing machine, our pretend laundrette, because they've watched their mum.

And then the mum's like, well, I can get and do that at home. Yeah, why not let them do it. 

Philippa: How often you run and how widespread are you? Because where are you 

Vicki: based? So I'm based in Suffolk, some of the North Essex, Suffolk border.

So I've got a branch who covers Suffolk and I've got a branch who covers North Essex, which is Colchester. So the franchisees have quite big geographical areas. We're based on postcodes. So they have their own territories to run in. They're all mobile. They all have their own vans and all their own kit and everything.

So they'll visit every venue once every three or four weeks. So they're always in the local area. All our sessions are [00:20:00] pay as you go, so there's no termly fees with it whatsoever. The parents can just turn up, book on, and come and have a play. And then they go away again after an hour and a half, 

so it's short, sharp sessions, but we also know that children's attention span can't last that long. Some people are like, oh, why isn't it two hours long? Because of the age range, we know that they get tired. But they also can start becoming a bit over boisterous, which is when we know that more tantrums and things might happen as well.

So we've tested it out with the time. It's not all children, of course, but some it can be a little bit overstimulating. Like, okay, right, it's time for a break. It's time for a reset kind of thing. 

Philippa: So how long does each session last then? 

Vicki: We do an hour and 15 minutes, so 75 minutes per session. A little leeway behind around there as well, because some people are going to be late. They've got kids to get in the car or out and about. 75 minutes is a really good time. And then birthday parties, we do two hour slots for birthday parties, because of course they have cake and stuff in the middle.

Yeah. But it's, yeah, it's really interesting birthday parties, because the kids [00:21:00] know each other. They play more interacting with each other. So the sessions in the weekday, 75 minutes, just with a parent or carer, childminder, grandparent, whoever, they're more interacting with their, the grown up that's there.

They play socially, but anti socially. It's really interesting they'll, we don't know that child next to them, they'll stand next to them and they, but they're doing their independent thing. But party hires and school hires, school workshops, they'll interact more with each other because they know each other and they might have been a couple of times before.

So there's a bit of safety there. It was like, okay, I don't need. My mummy there all the time. They're there. I'm watching them and they're out the corner of my eye But I'm actually gonna play with this child as well So they might serve each other a cup of tea and that's that's when it starts developing You can see the change in their play.

Philippa: Can you just go you mentioned something there? They're playing socially but antisocially Can you? Explain that and is that what you [00:22:00] would expect of children, typically developing of the age range that you see? 

Vicki: Yeah, I have no experience in child care, no, I don't know about the developmental stages as such, I mean loosely just from observation really, but yes, it is very much, they're playing with other children in the room, and I guess that's how preschools and nurseries work as well, they are playing, But not together, necessarily.

They're playing alongside another child, and that's where the sharing comes in as well. We definitely see older children are more likely to share than others. So we've only got two trolleys, for example, in the city. We could fill a room with trolleys, but they all want the same one. Developmentally, definitely the younger ages, the two till three and a half, maybe, really struggle with that sharing element, but they are focused on what they're doing and with their parent or carer.

As they get a bit older, again, just observing it, they're more likely to maybe talk to the kid next to them at the supermarket till, or [00:23:00] serve another child in the cafe, or share the letters in the postbox. They're just, it just seems as they get a little bit older, they're more used to other people around them and know that actually the other child will enhance my play if I let them interact with me.

But yeah, the little ones is very much, no, this is my lane. I'm going to do what I'm doing. 

Philippa: Yeah. So it's that, I guess it's that experience of play, isn't it? That helps them develop, cognitively, they are developing a little bit more so they can understand that I am going to get that back.

I can share it with you. And the likelihood is I can have another go later. Whereas when you're three or two and a half, you think that you might never get it back again. So you have to hold onto it really, really tightly. 

Vicki: You have the little ones who are just like, no, this is mine. And they're holding onto it for the whole session.

And that's okay. That's absolutely, we've got no problem with it whatsoever. We have to just encourage them as much as we possibly can to play as well. And it's really interesting that the families that come regularly, and we [00:24:00] have had families that have come all the way through, the parent might be on the third child that's come to Little City.

 You'll see that the first few visits, They will go to the areas that they recognize. That's always the cafe. It was always the post office. They might not even explore the vets or the garage. Cause that's not what they're used to. It's not what they recognize as easily.

They come three or four times and every time they play with something else. in a different way. And you can just see it's their confidence, but it's their learning as well. And I find that really fascinating. And it's lovely to see for the parents as well. We'll have some parents say, Oh, look, we didn't even play with everything.

I said, don't worry about it. Come back next time, because they've seen it all. And they've watched the other children play. They might give it a go next time. It's about just observing to start with for a lot of children. 

Philippa: And what about if you've got children that maybe, get a bit fizzy or a bit muddly and they've got they might be struggling.

How, how is that managed? 

Vicki: So our sessions are limited to the amount of children. So we'll only ever have, [00:25:00] 22, 25 children maximum playing at any one time. That's ensuring that we've got enough toys and resources for everybody and enough space for everybody as well. Cause we know there's some that like to run around and there's some that isn't.

 In a couple of these cities we've got chill out areas, we've done blackout tents and things before, little beanbags and things, for them to have a reset. For other children we might, and I know my team are really good at this, of keeping an eye on it. They might see a child becoming maybe a little bit uncomfortable or distracted and finding the toy that they were actually really interacting and taking it away out of the city and giving it to them so they can sit quietly on their own with that toy or a piece of equipment with their parent guardian.

And just enjoy it quietly by themselves. And we also do, we know we have other children, who just might find it a bit overwhelming. Still with 20 kids in the room, it can be a bit noisy. We had, for example, a little girl at one of our Christmas sessions, she'd played. before and she'd been a few times before and she came with her dad this time instead of her mum and [00:26:00] he was you could tell he was ready to go he was like yeah let's go he was really up for it but she was just not she was crying on his shoulder and that kind of thing so we had a couple of christmas books in our christmas era like do you want to go and sit down and read a book and sit down with daddy and it just took five ten minutes for her to just sit quietly reading a book with her face just Peering over, just having a look what are the children doing.

20 minutes later, she was back in. She was interacting and stuff. So it's very much, we realise that every child is different and we'll try and adapt it as much as we can. 

Philippa: Because that regulation can be quite hard. And I guess you've got children with different energies. So if you've got children who are a little bit more bouncy or a little bit more energetic, how is that managed? Or do they, do you need children who can play just gently with the toys? 

Vicki: We've got lots of bouncy children as well. They're the ones, we've got ride on toys, so they're the ones that are whizzing around on the ride on toys as well.

If they're into dressing up, not every child's into dressing up, there's a whole host of things and [00:27:00] we do find that they are the ones that are more likely to go, yeah, I'm going to be a fireman today and I'm going to chase someone around with their walkie talkie. So there is, there's a full range.

You've got the quiet ones and then you do have. The ones who've got big energy, who are there and springing around and doing stuff. And that's absolutely fine too. We've got a big enough space for it. We just have to regulate if there are crawlers or ones that are less confident on their feet, just to make sure that they're safe as well.

But it's funny, I don't know, my team might say something different, but I find that. They come in very bouncy and full of energy, but give them five, 10 minutes to just see where they're at and see what else is going on. And then they start going, Oh, actually, I'm going to go and play with that. We don't, we very rarely will have a child who.

It's chucking stuff around or is, really not enjoying it kind of thing. 

Philippa: When I think back at my, child going to soft play, like you say, I would just never would because he had so much energy to [00:28:00] take him somewhere that he was then really overstimulated with noise, with sound, with all those sorts of things would, it was just a disaster and we would end up, Leaving with some either injury or tears or something because it was over stimulated and actually he did have a really good imagination So playing is, is something that's really good But because he needed, like you say, to move a little bit in order to be able to regulate and familiarise himself with things then he could have gone and played, but not having so much structure as some of the groups

Vicki: Course, yeah, absolutely. 

Philippa: So it seems like Little City has got a It allows a bit of both. It allows the structure of actually, this is the space you've got to play in. These are what you're going to play with. This is the way we're going to play. So it's quite containing in that way. But it's also allows [00:29:00] enough freedom and imagination that they can flit from, if they see, They're doing the kettle in the cafe and then they notice the fireman's hat.

They can just put the kettle down and go straight to the fireman's house. Yeah, 

Vicki: definitely. And that's what I think is the beauty of it. You see the children doing it all differently. I love it when you see they've been in the cafe and they've had a tend cake or whatever.

And then they take that into the fire station, and they're tapping away at the laptop with the cake next to them, and it's like they've just taken it for a snack. Oh yeah I think for me as a parent, one of the reasons I set it up as well is because I had two small children, very close in age, there's only 17 months between them.

I found it really difficult to take my big girl to a toddler group when I've got a newborn baby with me as well, because I can't have her sat on my lap when I've got to hold the newbie, it just, For me, it didn't work. I loved those groups, that I think they're fantastic, but when they were especially little, I needed somewhere I could go that wasn't soft play, because soft play was too vast.

I can't see my big girl, the other side of the room. But I'm hoping that we're [00:30:00] welcoming and safe space enough at Little City that, wherever your child is in the developmental cycle, that, and if you've got a small child, you've got a baby, you can feel safe and contained enough. You can always see your child.

They can't escape. We've never had any escapees, they're always in the room. But they can go off and do their own thing whilst you need to feed your baby, or you can do a bit of both. We've had mums and dads sat holding a tiny one and playing with that one.

And then they might have a bigger child playing around the corner as well. It's for. Everybody, wherever they're at and whatever they want to do. And they can choose, we've got some tutor like, no, I'm here in the building site and I'm not moving because I'm going to build this tower, absolutely focus on it, do it.

But if you want to move around, you totally can as well. And the team, when we first set up, the real ethos was if we see a toy or equipment that's not being used anymore, we return it to where it belongs. And the amount of customers and parents who have said, Oh, you spent your whole time tidying up.

But the reason is so when the next child comes to that area, the resources are there for them to [00:31:00] interact with. And it's in roughly the right place. So they could see it and go, Oh yeah, I associate that with the doctor's surgery. Okay, great. That's what that's for. So that's really important for us as well.

Philippa: And what about children? who maybe are neurodiverse, maybe with autism or fetal alcohol syndrome or, maybe you've got some special needs or physical needs. Would they be able to access 

Vicki: the little city? Oh, absolutely. Yeah. My team and I've worked so hard on this.

It's like, what else can we do to make this accessible for those families? So we know, That some children or might not even be. Diagnosed or anything like that or on the, their journey to having support that some parents go. I can't take them there because they scream, that's their way of regulating or they might spin or anything like that.

And we're like, it's absolutely fine. There is, no judgment whatsoever. If your child throws a tantrum halfway through the session. That's okay. Cause everyone in this room's child has a tantrum. So don't worry about it. It's absolutely fine. What we have [00:32:00] done to counteract that is we've done, send specific sessions.

So 

we'll do them and we've again, listened to feedback. We won't do them first thing in the morning or the last thing at day. We'll try and do them at a sociable time. Cause we know that that's a better time for those families. It's accessing those families though, cause they all still might have that worry about going into community spaces.

But we say to them. Bring your child, regardless of what, needs they might have. They're reduced class sizes. So there might only be 15 children playing that morning. But all of you in this room have got a child who might be neurodermatitis, and so you're all in the same boat, so there's no judgment whatsoever.

And that's when we will put out the extra fidget toys or the blackout tent, everything like that, so we'll make it nice and secure for them. For the children, my team are fantastic at this. They work with local community groups, so in Colchester, my team member there, she's worked with the local Down Syndrome group. So she'll run sessions it's all families in the local area. All these children with Down syndrome. And what we've [00:33:00] tried to do as well is to reflect the children. So we've got toys that have got cochlear implants, and we've got dolls who might have Down syndrome, and we've got crutches, and we've got wheelchairs and things.

So the children can reflect and play. Really happily, we had one little boy the other day who has Down syndrome. Played with the Down syndrome. It's like me. It's like me and for the children who are neuro typical can see and experience that as well. And they pick up, it becomes normal for them. And we've been very lucky to go into lots of SEND schools. So we've worked quite a few across the country now, is we might be in there for a full day, and we might have children who are three or four, the preschool end, right through to 16, 17 year olds, interacting and playing at Little City.

And that has been, they're the most rewarding mornings of my life. I won't lie, they are fun. Amazing. Because of the nature of Little City, we can pull it apart. We can move the furniture around. We can make it fully adaptable for those children in the room. So we'll [00:34:00] take the lead from the teachers and the TAs.

So are those bits too small? Have we got children who are likely to mouth things in here? Okay, great. That kind of thing. In the cafe, we'll reduce the amount of toys and equipment we'd have in there because we need to keep it really simple. You keep it really straightforward for those children that might need it.

So, we'll adapt it to whatever audience we've got in the room. If we can, we will absolutely adapt it. 

Philippa: You've talked about, different, abilities. Diversity. Do the toys and the items reflect different cultures, different, you know?

Vicki: Yeah. From the very beginning, from my experience, I wanted it to not be gendered. So as far as possible, we don't have. pink things, for example, for girls and blue for boys, that was really, really important for me. So the backdrops of all of Little City are not neutral colours, they're bright, bold colours, but then nothing is gendered.

There's no, this is the boy area, this is the girl area, that kind of thing. In the hairdressers, we've got little mini pretend hairdressers, I [00:35:00] encourage the teams always have, different hair types, because we've got those mannequin heads for the children to play and do their hair and so we'll always aim for that to be very much prominent in there.

So different tools that you might need in the hairdressers for different hair types as well and we've got a man with a beard now, which is quite mannequin head, so they can just see the different types and some of the mannequins have got curly hair, some have got afro hair, they've got straight hair, all the different variations. And the same, the doctors will have different skin tones for the dolls and the babies, as well as maybe abilities, disabilities. We've got different foods in the cafe, different food in the supermarket, would try and make it as accessible, again, as diverse as we possibly can.

It depends what's on the market. We are restricted sometimes by the suppliers and what's around, without it being tokenistic, I think that's my concern as well. It's gotta be right

and we'll adapt it for different areas. So we've chatted, in those communities that might not celebrate Christmas. We might not do Christmas sessions in that area. We'll do a winter [00:36:00] session, and then also thinking about the venues that we hold our sessions in. Church halls are brilliant, they're nice big spaces, that kind of thing.

But we know that some communities can't. go into that church hall because it's the Church of England or something like that. So we have to be aware and reflect our audience and reflect our local customers. But that's different in every area of the country. Devon is white, British, middle class, central London is completely different and completely diverse.

So it's, we've got to change for that. 

Philippa: You talked about birthday parties and things like that, so can people say we'd like, like you to come and do this event for us? 

Vicki: How do they 

Philippa: do 

Vicki: that, Vicky? So they just contact us through the website. Birthday parties are huge for us.

They are, they're a bit nuts. And I, this was something I didn't expect when I first started the business as birthday parties, but we easily could do birthday parties all day, every weekend, every Saturday and Sunday. So it's a, the, in that instance, the customer says, we want to book a birthday party.

We say, okay, where do you want us to come? [00:37:00] As long as you've got a big enough space. Fans of going to people's homes because things can get damaged and that kind of thing. We like a hall or a venue of some description. And then we set up the city as we would normally. But for parties, we do a big red ribbon around the city.

The child cuts the ribbon to open their city. We've got crowns, we've got thrones. We've got, they're in charge. They're in charge of the day. And then they're just, Yeah, they're fun. And then the parents bring cakes and balloons, and sometimes we'll have a princess, a real princess visit, or Bluey turns up, or someone like that.

So yeah, they have two hours. We're not entertainers as such, but we'll compare. But I think with parties, unlike a bouncy castle or a soft play party, the kids aren't getting hyper, and then you give them sugar. And they're going even wilder at this party. We, it's a more sort of mellow, they do get hyper, they get excited, but it's not, it's a constant energy rather than a ups and downs.

And it appeals to all different ages as well. So if you all have got a second birthday, but you've got friends, you've got four, five, six year olds, [00:38:00] everyone can play and they all interact and play with each other. So that's really nice. You have the mixed age groups at birthday parties. Yeah. And then we do corporate events too.

Philippa: So that was my next thing. So I will put a link in the description of this to the website. That's where people will get in touch with you. So corporate events, tell me about that 

Vicki: so we've done a couple of those. We've got a couple more this summer and that's big family days that corporations and businesses might have, that needs some entertainment for the little ones so we will set up. In their venue and the kids can just, come and play as their parents are interacting and chatting to their work colleagues. 

Philippa: So this is like a big organization or something like that, that thinks, okay, we're doing a family day. We're doing a summer fate for everybody, but we need to entertain some kids.

So rather than having a bouncy castle or alongside the bouncing you can go and set up and the kids can go and play in them and the parents can go and have their barbecue or their party food and those sorts of things. I'm guessing the kids come in and out then a bit different [00:39:00] than when they're in the hall?

Because when they're in the hall, the parents are playing with them there. Whereas if you're at a corporate event, it may be that the parents are chatting and the kids are coming in and out. Is that right? 

Vicki: Exactly. Yes. So it's a free flow, we'd call it. So we'd always make sure there's enough staff on board. We're never left alone with the children. We're not Ofsted registered or anything like that. We're not childminders. As long as the parent's got an eyeball on the child, we're happily there. We love to play, of course, so we're more than happy to get down and, be served a cup of tea, or be looked after with a doctor's surgery.

So that's absolutely fine by us, as long as the parent's still responsible and there. But again, the kids are free flow, move around, have a play, and then they might go and play in the bouncy castle and come back in 10 minutes time. Absolutely fine. 

Philippa: So you do it in quite a lot of, different ways are you just in the south then?

 I'm in the north. 

Vicki: No, we're everywhere. So I've got three branches in Yorkshire now. So I've got, Sheffield, North Yorkshire and, it's just like Barnsley and Wakefield area. I've got a [00:40:00] lot in the South. East Anglia is covered. That's why it's grown organically from where I'm based. I've got my lovely West team now. So I've got, Bristol, Devon, Bath, just about to open in South Wales, which is really exciting. So that's been really fun. We're having everything translated into Welsh as well. So when we go to those schools, we can make sure that we're multilingual, which has been a task in itself, but really fun.

And I'm really excited to see all the printed material in different language. And then we're on the South coast as well. We do, Portsmouth, and Sussex a few London branches as well. Northwest, I haven't reached yet, but there's still 

Philippa: Birmingham, Derby, Nottingham that band is 

Vicki: not there yet.

So we've got a couple of gaps, but we're growing. I'm not planning on world domination. I want to grow the team. I want to grow the business. But it's been organic and that's enough for me. It's, it's just me inverted corners, head office. So there's only so much I can do.

Philippa: If people were interested in working for Little City, because I imagine people listening to this, they are, [00:41:00] that would be one of the best jobs in the world, playing all this all day. What does that entail?

Vicki: So we're a franchise, which means the team are all self employed. But they've bought into the business, and it's a five year license to run little city in your postcode area. So that can only happen if there's not a little city already, because obviously I've got a team member there.

So yeah, if we have anybody coming, Nottingham, Northampton, West coast, even Manchester area that is, it's geographical, everyone has their own territory and they're exclusively running little city sessions in that area. So in that area, you can be working your weekday sessions in the community, pay as you go, schools, parties, corporate events, whatever comes along.

The team are completely self employed, they choose their diaries, they run how often and whenever they want. On average, the team are working three or four days a week, ish. Some of them working two, some of them working, one or three. But it's all around our families and our children. So the whole team are parents in one way, shape or form.

So it's very [00:42:00] flexible that's the reason I set it up, is because I didn't want to go back to corporate life and I didn't want to be restricted. So now I can choose when I want to go to work and not. Yesterday morning, I was at my girl's school because I could at 10 o'clock in the morning because I go and help read and that kind of thing.

And so it's very flexible, but we choose our hours when and how, but it's, it's physical, but it's also a lot of fun. 

Philippa: Provide them with all the equipment or do you give them a list and they have to buy the equipment? 

Vicki: Bit of both. So the city itself, we have registered design and it's trademarked everything and I can tweak and change that as I wish.

That's. manufactured to order. I don't have loads of cities sat, in a warehouse or anything like that. So as soon as we get someone signed up, we provide them with the city, and the basic, the starter package, as it were. The toys and equipment, when you think of franchise, you think of McDonald's.

Well, I always do. Every McDonald's looks the same. Not every little city looks the same, the backdrops all look the same, but it's [00:43:00] up to the individual's creativity of what goes in each area. We have a preferred list, so in the construction area, we recommend you have this, this, this and this, and these are the preferred suppliers, and we get some really good discount rates from these suppliers.

But if you see something else or different that's going to be really great and interactive for that area, absolutely bring it in. My team is so creative. And we have a dressing up area and one of them this week found a wooden pretend sewing machine. So she's put that in and put a mannequin's dummy in it so that children pretend to make the clothes in the dressing up area. And that's not a set by me whatsoever, that's up to the individual you want to invest in those resources and the kids are loving it. It's, yeah, whatever's going to work for your area. I guess the community 

Philippa: that you're serving, because I imagine being in Manchester is quite different than being in, Bristol in many ways.

Yeah. Yes, and 

Vicki: adapt it and change it. A lot of the things are the same, but [00:44:00] yeah, they've got quite a lot of artistic license with it as well. And then we did bring in extra themed areas as well, so we, the team have put in pizza parlours, we've had a dentist set up before, we've got, for Halloween, Christmas, Spring over the winter we might have winter animals in the vets.

So again, you can theme it by the season or something that's going on. World Book Day, for example, is coming up. We can go all out on World Book Day. The team have done the tiger who came to tea or the postman who knocks it's just dress it up. Absolutely. You can make it really interactive and different for the children visiting.

Philippa: Goodness. It sounds the one of the most amazing, things, Vicki, and I'm sure the kids and the families just get So much out of it. So thank you so much for your time. I will put a link in, the description, for people to be able to have a look at your website.

You're also on Instagram, aren't you? 

Vicki: Instagram and Facebook. Yep. Little City [00:45:00] UK on Instagram and Facebook. 

Philippa: Okay, so people can have a follow and have a look at what you do and yeah, how interesting. Thank you so much for having me. That's okay, thank you.